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More persecution news
This info has been circulating on other Orthodox lists. I think I will write to my MP and ask what the Foreign Office are doing.
http://www.persecution.org/2010/12/09/38-children-injured-after-police-open-fire-on-protesters-in-egypt/
http://www.persecution.org/2010/12/09/house-converted-into-mosque-overnight-in-egypt-to-prevent-church-services/
http://www.persecution.org/2010/12/09/38-children-injured-after-police-open-fire-on-protesters-in-egypt/
http://www.persecution.org/2010/12/09/house-converted-into-mosque-overnight-in-egypt-to-prevent-church-services/
Comments
I am so sorry to say this, but I don't mean to be cynical or disheartening. But a simple question is: don't you think it is in the British interests to keep the interior affairs of Egypt up to Egypt's interior ministry? I guess so. Looking forward to every body's opinions...
[coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]
Very bad news.
God bless and keep Egypt and all its people
This info has been circulating on other Orthodox lists. I think I will write to my MP and ask what the Foreign Office are doing.
http://www.persecution.org/2010/12/09/38-children-injured-after-police-open-fire-on-protesters-in-egypt/
http://www.persecution.org/2010/12/09/house-converted-into-mosque-overnight-in-egypt-to-prevent-church-services/
Thanks Fr. Peter!
This is extremely sad. It angers me to the core!
[quote author=epchois_nai_nan link=topic=10158.msg124255#msg124255 date=1291989778]
Usually Amensty Intl. is all over reports like this, but funnily enough I haven't been able to find a single mention of Copts at all on their site. I'm thinking of writing to them since we definitely need more international attention given to the issue atm - if the rest of the world continues to be unaware of the situation it will only worsen more quickly ...
Very bad news.
God bless and keep Egypt and all its people
This is part of my anger also... why isn't this being reported!! What is wrong with Western Journalists!!!
I have a good friend who works at the BBC Arabic service who admitted that because muslims are the responsible for the news there, no one wants to report anything to show Islam in a negative light.
OK.. that's fine, but they don't even report on basic stuff like the Pope's Anniversary.
What is going on!!
Arrggggggghhh!!!
I hate to see injustices like this, without any form of accountability.
If I may make a suggestion, I think it would be a great idea to have a forum section just for news.That way, we would know and find easily where a particular news item is archived.Thanks,the erudite Zoxasi the legend is doing a great job in informing us what is going on where.Keep it up, Zoxi!
I posted it below:
http://dsreif.blogspot.com/
i assume that's eastern time, if so, it is 15.30 GMT. if u are working, u can pray when u get home from work, or before work if u r in australia, but lets all pray.
But we must not be slow to act for the sake of others. If I am being assaulted I may choose to submit to the blows. But if I see a woman being assaulted and say to myself, 'It will do her good to suffer, and she will learn many lessons', then I am sinning.
A man may choose to live in abject poverty for the Gospel's sake, but he cannot choose this for others and for his family.
Here in the UK we can put pressure on our government because we live in a democracy in which our voices should be heard to make democracy function. And our government does have contact with other governments. A government will not act unless the people it is responsible to insist that it does. And to be silent when some good could be done is to sin. In a democracy all members of society have a resposibility to participate, and to choose not to do so when others could be helped is not humility but a lack of concern.
There are those in government who do care. We must find them out and support their efforts while encouraging our own representatives to be more aware of matters of concern to those they represent. Perhaps the Egyptian government will do nothing even if challenged. But it will certainly do nothing if the issue is never raised. The Armenian people were almost wiped out by the Turks, there were few challenges to their genocidal brutality. To know that the eyes of the world are on you does often make a difference to most governments.
Father Peter
And to be silent when some good could be done is to sin.
Prayer is not silent. But with that said, I think it was H.H. Pope Shenouda who said, "I desire silence so the Lord may speak." :)
"The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace." (Exodus 14:14)
Pray for me.
If I see someone walking towards a cliff with a bag on their head it would not be appropriate only to pray. The Good Samaritan did more than pray. The Scripture is clear...
James 2:15-17 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
We do not take all the actions which are open to us, including prayer, because we trust governments and men, but because we do not wish to leave any course of action untried if it might help others. When the tsunami struck Asia it would not have been enough to only pray. Nor should we doubt the desire of the enemy.
There is no church in Nubia anymore, or in Libya. Carthage is a memory. The Armenian Church was almost wiped out. It seems to me that God always requires prayer and action on our part for others. You are posting verses that relate to the situation of someone in the middle of destructive forces, and not quoting those passages which show that those of us who can intercede with those in authority should do so.
None of this excludes the requirement to pray and fast. But this is not enough if it is clear that we have the ability and opportunity to speak and do good.
When it came to the possibility of a Coptic Church receiving funds it was not the case that people were saying..
"The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace." (Exodus 14:14)
On the contrary, bishops were giving permission for laity to join facebook and register a vote. Since we have the same opportunity to register our opinion as members of democracies, and over a much more important matter than whether a school gets funding, we should do so. The campaign in support of Patriarch Antonios of Eritrea here in the UK is an example.
There is no church in Nubia anymore, or in Libya. Carthage is a memory. The Armenian Church was almost wiped out. It seems to me that God always requires prayer and action on our part for others. You are posting verses that relate to the situation of someone in the middle of destructive forces, and not quoting those passages which show that those of us who can intercede with those in authority should do so.
Thank you Father for sharpening the point. The Nubians resisted Islam for nearly 1000 years without much help from outside. Can we allow that to continue in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon,....?
Well it often does a great deal. I do not think it is fair to say that all authorities are unfair. Indeed the Scripture is clear that we must obey those authorities and co-operate with them. It was complaining by Christians that brought an end to the British slave trade. It was complaining by Christians that took children and women out of the mines. It was complaining by Christians that created universal education. It was complaining by Christians that created hospitals and health care for all. Complaining does a great deal when it is directed in the right places and is linked with faith and self-sacrifice. All of the good things we enjoy in the West are the fruit of good people complaining and doing something about bad situations.
Do you really mean that if you saw a woman being ill-treated you would just stand at a distance and pray? How does that correspond with the teaching of the Good Samaritan?
I was very angry a while ago when I discovered that most of the lamb sold in the UK was halal. I did not only pray, since I have been given intelligence and reason. I also contacted the chairman of one of our major supermarkets and was able to have a conversation with him. After only a few days his supermarket chain announced that one brand of lamb would be halal free. Had I not emailed him, with many others, he would have done nothing at all.
I disagree with you that we should not do anything except pray. I can't see that this has ever been the attitude of the Church. When the monks of Palestine were being persecuted they sent St Severus as their representative to Constantinople to complain. The Church has always made representations to the Muslim rulers whenever possible. St Cyril made representations to the Imperial family on several occasions. etc etc. St Paul appealed to Caesar. Not because they trusted men more than God but because the believed that it is necessary to pray and work within the governmental structures that existed.
If a few emails can raise the matter of persecution in the minds of a few officials who are ignorant, not corrupt, then it would be sin not to educate them. There are government officials who are concerned here in the UK and often attend and support organisations which are trying to raise the issue of Christians being persecuted.
I am sorry but we are not called only to pray. This is a false dichotomy. When you need to eat do you only pray? When you need to pay your bills do you only pray? When you are cold do you only pray? When you are thirsty do you only pray? Df course you do not. Shall I say, who is your shepherd and provider? Jesus Christ or the water utility company? There was a monk who said to his brother that he was going to live like the angels and do nothing except pray. He disappeared for a few days and then there was a knock at the door of the compound. The hard-working monk asked who it was. 'It is your brother, I am hungry and thirsty, can I come in', he said. 'Oh you cannot be my brother', said the hard-worker, 'You must be an illusion sent to test me. My brother lives like the angels and needs nothing except prayer'. 'No, I am he', said the one who wanted to do no work. But the door remained shut. And it remained shut for three days and nights until he repented and asked his brother's forgiveness for having desired a life free from work.
We live in THIS world, not the next one. And as we are able to make representations to our representatives (they are REPRESENTATIVES after all) then we should do so. The government in our Western democracies, is still accountable to us all, it is still notionally the servant of us all. If we do not use our democratic voice then we sin. This is not putting our faith in men, it is using the democratic tools and the freedom which God has provided us with. If God has placed us in societies where our opinions CAN change things then we sin if we do not make any effort to participate in the democratic process.
If the schools send out a letter saying, 'We are going to teach explicit sex education to 5 year olds unless we have a reasonable level of disagreement with this intention', then should an Orthodox Christian say, 'I have been asked my opinion but I will not answer the question, I will only pray', or should he pray and also give thanks that his opinion has been asked and respond negatively to the intention of the school?
If you have a different opinion then I will certainly not elevate mine to a dogmatic status, but it is my firm opinion that if we have the possibility to 'speak truth to power' then we should do so. And in a democratic society it is our duty to do so. The only reason that this Christian woman in Pakistan is not dead at this moment is because other Christians are praying and speaking out on her behalf. God requires both of these from us.
http://www.metrolic.com/pakistani-president-may-pardon-christian-woman-sentenced-to-death-147855/
God can do all things, but he usually chooses to us our hands and feet, and hearts and mouths and minds.
In the early Church there were many who complained about the treatment of Christians. Many of the bishops wrote to the Emperor to try to persuade him to change the practice of the state. Justin Martyr, one of the first of the Apologists, writing very early indeed, begins his First Apology with these words...
To the Emperor Titus Ælius Adrianus Antoninus Pius Augustus Caesar, and to his son Verissimus the Philosopher, and to Lucius the Philosopher, the natural son of Caesar, and the adopted son of Pius, a lover of learning, and to the sacred Senate, with the whole People of the Romans, I, Justin, the son of Priscus and grandson of Bacchius, natives of Flavia Neapolis in Palestine, present this address and petition in behalf of those of all nations who are unjustly hated and wantonly abused, myself being one of them.
His whole work is concerned with showing that the persecution of the Church is unjust and unreasonable.
There are many other such works, which shows that the early Church, while facing persecution bravely, also used every means to appeal to those in authority to bring the persecution to an end. I could add Athenagoras of Athens who writes to the Emperor pleading for the Church. I could add Melito of Sardis who also appealed to the Emperor for the Church. And there are more. The list is quite substantial considering that it is based only on those texts which have come down to us.
I am not sure what you mean by 'the slightest persecution', the Armenian Church, for instance, lost 1.5 million believers only 100 years ago. And I am not suggesting that you should not be able to claim the crown of martyrdom if it comes to you. But it is not our place to do little so that others can suffer. This was not the practice of the Church in the early period you refer to. As I have shown, the leadership of the Church took every effort to show the Emperor that persecution was unjust and unreasonable. As I have also referenced, it was the practice of the monks to send representatives to the government to seek redress against unjust treatment. This is why St Severus was sent to Constantinople.
Father Peter
Thank you for this valuable insight into how Christians of the early church responded to persecution politically. It would be great if you reverence can put together an article on this that we can post to the homepage for others to benefit from.
--Michael
This is in agreement with the points mentioned in the word addressed by HG Bishop Serapion in the Ecumenical Day of Prayer. May the Lord bless the Church everywhere by giving His powerful support to all of us. Amen.
GBU
This info has been circulating on other Orthodox lists. I think I will write to my MP and ask what the Foreign Office are doing.
http://www.persecution.org/2010/12/09/38-children-injured-after-police-open-fire-on-protesters-in-egypt/
http://www.persecution.org/2010/12/09/house-converted-into-mosque-overnight-in-egypt-to-prevent-church-services/
Just tonight Jeffrey Kuhner posted his "Christmas Eve" op-ed piece in the Washington Times. It is all about the persecution of Christians in the Middle-East and in Asia including the Copts.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/23/radical-islam-vs-christianity/
Jeffrey is a good friend and a Lion of the Faith. May God Bless him!
More primitive Jihadis stupidity news: Al Qaeda-affiliated website targets Christians in Canada
Thanks for the post. I know some people I can share it with. My suspicion is that the RCMP and Canadian securtity are like the US DOJ in that they are far more interested in the well being of themselves than they are of Christians. AG Holder has done his best covering up the Ft. Hood massacre and shielding Maj Hasan because he does not wish to cause any problems for the Administrations with their friends in the Arab world. I doubt it is much different in Canada although the names of the bureaucrats may change.