hey guys,
my philoshopy professor was saying in the middle of class that God in the old testament was very racist and did many genocides. he says that God favored the Isrealites and destroyed everyone else even the babies. He killed many nations just so that the "HIS PEOPLE" win...
I got really upset and I even went to talk to him after class but his arguments won over everything i said...PLEASE help!!!
Comments
hey guys,
my philoshopy professor was saying in the middle of class that God in the old testament was very racist and did many genocides. he says that God favored the Isrealites and destroyed everyone else even the babies. He killed many nations just so that the "HIS PEOPLE" win...
I got really upset and I even went to talk to him after class but his arguments won over everything i said...PLEASE help!!!
He needs to understand the "god" he is talking about.
Its a good question, and it deserves a good response.
Please can Fr. Peter answer this?
I want to understand why God was on the jews' side only????
1. Unlimited revenge:
• An example of this standard would be Genesis 4:15 “The Lord replied, “No, for I will give a sevenfold punishment to anyone who kills you.” Here we see the unlimited revenge set by God and permitted by God. In my opinion at this time humanity is at its lowest level, right after the Great Fall and with no revelation of God. Therefore we can say this is the lowest standard.
2. Limited revenge:
• Here we are commanded to a higher moral standard. Unlimited revenge is no longer permissible but we should restrain ourselves from going into an excess. Exodus 21:23-25 If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
3. The Silver rule:
• Do not do to others as you would not have them do to you. Examples can be found in Tobit 4:15 and Sirach 31:15. I think this is self explanatory.
4. Golden Rule
• “Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets.” Matthew 7:12. This doesn’t stop with not doing bad as the silver rule but also stress the importance of doing good. As Christians we are not called not to sin only but to do good.
5. Love your enemies:
• Finally there is the ultimate, the climax, the epic of Christianity. What encompasses and distinguish Christianity in its entirety. Love your enemies, hard even to imagine let alone accomplish. We are called to perfection (Matthew 5:48) not the bare minimum. We might wonder how we are called to such a high standard and not those in the Old Testament? The reason is no one can accomplish this without the help of Jesus Christ. We are “blessed for we hear and see of the things that many prophets and righteous men wish to see and hear but did not. So we must act accordingly. With the help of our Lord we can reach the highest standard.
• "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[b] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:43-48
In Christ
Theophilus
When one looks at the bible he/she should look at the entire book and not certain verses or passages. If this is not the case we will end up missing the big message and get caught up in minute details or pseudo-contradictions. Even worse what they say ‘a text out of context is a pretext’ might apply to the person. You may try to explain to your teacher or even better arrange for him to come to your church and ask his questions to someone that may have some replies. With prayers and supplication God might soften his heart and you won’t be sowing on a hard stone.
Marina there is also a thing I want to say to you, when an unbeliever accepts Christianity there is usually a series of people he met in his journey prior to his conversion. Think of it as a chain, each one linking to the next. In the same manner, different people come across his life through the work of the Holy Spirit, witnessing and ministering to him up to the very last link. We usually want to be the last link that actually perform the last bit of the work and take the credit for his conversion. But the greatest danger is that of being too enthusiastic at one extreme or being a missing link.
Pray for me
In Christ
Theophilus
i am still a little shaky though and feel like your answer is right but i need to know more.
i undertand your analogy with the child, I even told my professor THE SAME analogy. BUT how can i exaplin how God favored the Isrealites over all the other nations and called them his people and was willing to kill everyone else for their sake????
thanks a lot Theophilus 1 for your reply and the support with verses..
i am still a little shaky though and feel like your answer is right but i need to know more.
i undertand your analogy with the child, I even told my professor THE SAME analogy. BUT how can i exaplin how God favored the Isrealites over all the other nations and called them his people and was willing to kill everyone else for their sake????
From the beginning our Almighty GOD has 'favored' good over evil. Your teacher wants to explain it as racist??!! I think that is very silly (personally).
Abel's offering was favored over Cains because GOD saw that Abel's sacrifice was given out of genuine love for GOD.
GOD favored Abraham and gave him a son of promise, from whom came Jacob.....Israel! Sons and daughter's from GOD's promise to his good sons. The reward for keeping the faith.
Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because the righteous Lot was disturbed daily by the wickedness of the citizens there.
I think your teacher needs to look at the definition of the word 'Racist'!
You would call a father who corrects a son doing wrong racist because he approves the son who is doing right??? GOD's Judgements are a lot deeper than just being a racist. Pleeeaaase ::)
How does your instructor understand the times when God empowered the enemies of Isrel to take them into captivity?
I have a question for your professor. If God of the Old Testament is racist why did He designated a section of the Temple for the gentiles? Why did he not make the Temple exclusively for Jews?
And then there is the question asked by Jesus because they use to be proud of being decedents of Abraham. But Jesus wants them to know that being and Isralite or decedents of Abraham is not what is important. So, He ask them quoting from the Old Testament
Certainly there were many needy widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the heavens were closed for three and a half years, and a severe famine devastated the land. 26 Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them. He was sent instead to a foreigner—a widow of Zarephath in the land of Sidon. 27 And there were many lepers in Israel in the time of the prophet Elisha, but the only one healed was Naaman, a Syrian.” Luke 4:25-27
Here is the answer for anyone who thinks God prefers one race over another:
“Don’t just say to each other, ‘We’re safe, for we are descendants of Abraham.’ That means nothing, for I tell you, God can create children of Abraham from these very stones.” Matthew 3:9
In Christ
Theophilus
Let me ask you one question; Lucifer was created by God, right? So, was he created in God's image?
Lucifer, or more like Satanaeel, was an angel; the highest rank of them in fact. Do you think angels were created in the image of God?
that He created Man is His image...how does this help lol?
[quote author=minagir link=topic=8394.msg106925#msg106925 date=1255792543]
[quote author=Melchoir link=topic=8394.msg106923#msg106923 date=1255777392]
Let me ask you one question; Lucifer was created by God, right? So, was he created in God's image?
Lucifer, or more like Satanaeel, was an angel; the highest rank of them in fact. Do you think angels were created in the image of God?
[quote author=Melchoir link=topic=8394.msg106923#msg106923 date=1255777392]
Let me ask you one question; Lucifer was created by God, right? So, was he created in God's image?
Lucifer, or more like Satanaeel, was an angel; the highest rank of them in fact. Do you think angels were created in the image of God?
Fair enough, but, does Lucifer have followers, children or someone similar on this earth, as the world is rules by "Satan"? If so, do(can) they physically look like us humans? Are they among some of us?
The bottom line is always in the heart. If the person is genuine, God will reveal and explain Himself to that person even if he was porsecuting Jesus ( Example st Paul (Soul) who saw Christ
when he was going to capture and torture Christians)
I guess U should pray for that person and every other one like him, that the Lord may open their hearts and eyes to see Him.
As for God betwen the old and new testment, this is a huge subject that can not be simply explained here.
Our God is a LOVING GOD and the bottom line is what st Paul said in his letter to the Hebrews chapter 13:
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them"
God bless u all
thanks for the reply Ioannes but he might ask why i am comparing GOD to humans thats totally different and then he might say science can prove that evolution is right..how do u prove God exists
If God could be proven by science He wouldnt be God. Also, science uses this "evidence" to prove evolution true, right? In a sense, basically it takes evidence and places an interpretation on that evidence, that doesnt make it true. Just as people reading the bible and getting thousands of interpretations from it, to be exact 38,000 different denominations have arisen from personal interpretation. If he asks such a question say this: " tell me where the universe ends and I will tell you where God begins." To finish up here, its not comparing God to humans, it is basically saying: you accuse God of being racist while believing in a theory that promotes it, and was founded by racists. Thanks for reading.
Perhaps we should focus less on how to convince others who are hard set on their mentality of the Truth by words and rather pray for their souls, as well as our own, that we all may become more aware of the presence of God and the Truth of His Revelation to us. We are often so focused on what it is that we as individuals may do to change the mentality of another... Moses did not rely on himself but rather on God and His instruction to aid in the release of the Israelites. He did not stand for hours on end, trying to convince him of the truth; it was God who softened the heart of Pharaoh. Why are we, then, so self-reliant?
"Where there is much talk there will be no end to sin, but he who keeps his mouth shut does wisely." Proverbs 10:19
Perhaps we should focus less on how to convince others who are hard set on their mentality of the Truth by words and rather pray for their souls, as well as our own, that we all may become more aware of the presence of God and the Truth of His Revelation to us. We are often so focused on what it is that we as individuals may do to change the mentality of another... Moses did not rely on himself but rather on God and His instruction to aid in the release of the Israelites. He did not stand for hours on end, trying to convince him of the truth; it was God who softened the heart of Pharaoh. Why are we, then, so self-reliant?
GREAT point! I of all people should take this to heart and live by this. God bless you!
"Where there is much talk there will be no end to sin, but he who keeps his mouth shut does wisely." Proverbs 10:19
Perhaps we should focus less on how to convince others who are hard set on their mentality of the Truth by words and rather pray for their souls, as well as our own, that we all may become more aware of the presence of God and the Truth of His Revelation to us. We are often so focused on what it is that we as individuals may do to change the mentality of another... Moses did not rely on himself but rather on God and His instruction to aid in the release of the Israelites. He did not stand for hours on end, trying to convince him of the truth; it was God who softened the heart of Pharaoh. Why are we, then, so self-reliant?
you know what ur saying is true but then when you stand infront of those people who are accusing the God you love then you feel weak like how i do and want to fight back and say there is no one but him but your knowledge is very limited thats why you seek help
[quote author=childoforthodoxy link=topic=8394.msg107523#msg107523 date=1257314638]
"Where there is much talk there will be no end to sin, but he who keeps his mouth shut does wisely." Proverbs 10:19
Perhaps we should focus less on how to convince others who are hard set on their mentality of the Truth by words and rather pray for their souls, as well as our own, that we all may become more aware of the presence of God and the Truth of His Revelation to us. We are often so focused on what it is that we as individuals may do to change the mentality of another... Moses did not rely on himself but rather on God and His instruction to aid in the release of the Israelites. He did not stand for hours on end, trying to convince him of the truth; it was God who softened the heart of Pharaoh. Why are we, then, so self-reliant?
you know what ur saying is true but then when you stand infront of those people who are accusing the God you love then you feel weak like how i do and want to fight back and say there is no one but him but your knowledge is very limited thats why you seek help
Childoforthodoxy is right. We should use prayer as a weapon. Engaging these people will only enflame them and make us and God look much worse. I have debated countless atheists, originally to strengthen arguing points I was working on for a book, but it quickly got out of hand and I lost sight of the actual goal. I made no difference despite the points I made. They do not want to believe so how can you change the mind of someone who does not want it to be changed. No matter what you or I say, they will counter it with something. It is best to keep silent in these situations.
you know what ur saying is true but then when you stand infront of those people who are accusing the God you love then you feel weak like how i do and want to fight back and say there is no one but him but your knowledge is very limited thats why you seek help
Of course, this is often what we will naturally feel, but there are a few points that I feel should be addressed regarding this last post. Firstly, yes, you may feel weak, but in times when we feel weak, are we not to remember Philippians 4:13: "I can do all things in Christ, who strengthens me"? It is a common verse that is used repeatedly, but how much do we believe it... how much do we truly practice this? I must allow Christ to be in my life, in my actions and in my words for my being to be strengthened by Him.
Secondly, our knowledge may be limited, but we are then called to expand our knowledge through the Revelation of the Truth. It is in reading the Holy Scriptures, in reading the writings of the Church Fathers, in discussing with one another with Christ among us that we learn; but this is not so that we may go and present our knowledge to others, but rather for the strengthening of our own faith and our understanding that we must be increasingly reliant on God.
Thirdly, in relation to the second point, many will speak against God. Are we to answer them all? Am I called to convert all of these people back to the truth of the true faith? Again, I reference my last post in saying that we have become self-reliant. And even if I know the answer to the question, should I provide it? Matthew 7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." Our faith is a gift, a very valuable and priceless gift, and we must see it as such.
May we all learn to pray both for others and ourselves, that we all may be strengthened through Christ and increase in our knowledge and experience of the Truth that has been revealed to us by His love.
childoforthodoxy
God Bless