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Why did Saint Moses the Black want to die for?

Unknown
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues

This question is concerning the story of Saint Moses the Black.

Why did Saint Moses the black want to be killed when he stayed behind in the monastery?

If God had forgiven him his sins, why did he insist on the fact that he should die for them anyway??

Many thanks

Comments

  • miskandemiskande
    Saint Moses the black did not want to die because of his sins, he wanted to die for the name of Christ, just like many other martyrs who felt honored to die for His sake. He didn't want to run away from a chance to become a martyr...
    his sins were forgiven when he was baptized, and he didn't need to die.....he just felt that giving his life to the Lord is the least he could do after everything God has done for him (and for all of us)

    I hope this helps

    God Bless
  • Unknown
    Omelnour,

    thanks. But, you what? When reading the story, it says that he said to the other monks that he wanted to stay to be killed because he himself had killed by the sword,and so should die by the sword.

    Why?
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    Death is not something a Christian should fear.

    St Moses the Black was aware that we must all die at some time. It seemed fitting to him that he die in this way.

    I think you are expecting too much for us to know the inner workings of a saint from just a short account in the synaxarium.

    He was not afraid to die, if he ran away this time would he keep running away? His death was not a punishment, but as he reflected on the likely means of his death it seemed appropriate.

    Father Peter

  • Unknown
    [quote author=peterfarrington link=topic=7820.msg101693#msg101693 date=1239282863]
    Death is not something a Christian should fear.

    St Moses the Black was aware that we must all die at some time. It seemed fitting to him that he die in this way.

    I think you are expecting too much for us to know the inner workings of a saint from just a short account in the synaxarium.

    He was not afraid to die, if he ran away this time would he keep running away? His death was not a punishment, but as he reflected on the likely means of his death it seemed appropriate.

    Father Peter



    Hello

    If his death wasn't a punishment, then why did he not run away with the other monks?

  • miskandemiskande
    I think you may have mis-interperted. He said to the other monks that he was told by one of the elder monks many years ago that one who is present in the monsatery will die by the sword, and St. Moses the black knew the elder monk was talking about him, because as the verse in the bible says in Matthew 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword.

    so when the chance came to become a martyr, he did not run away and hide, but rather stayed in the monastery and seized the chance

    God Bless
  • Unknown
    [quote author=omelnour link=topic=7820.msg101697#msg101697 date=1239284710]
    I think you may have mis-interperted. He said to the other monks that he was told by one of the elder monks many years ago that one who is present in the monsatery will die by the sword, and St. Moses the black knew the elder monk was talking about him, because as the verse in the bible says in Matthew 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword.

    so when the chance came to become a martyr, he did not run away and hide, but rather stayed in the monastery and seized the chance

    God Bless


    lol.. sorry, but I really don't understand. God said "those who kill by the sword will die by the sword" - yes.. but why did he WANT to be killed by the sword? If it was because he had killed by the sword, then surely that amounts to self-inflicted punishment?

    He didnt die for his faith? He didnt die like saint Demiana or Saint George died. He died because he didnt flee from being attacked. Its as if he wanted to be punished for that.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong.
    Thanks
  • christ_rosechrist_rose
    On the contrary my friend, St Moses the Black is a martyr as is St George and St Demiana because he was killed for his faith by the barbarians who were against christianity. St Moses the Black felt that the words that our Lord Jesus spoke when St Peter hit one of the guards applied to him because he lived much of his life in sin and killed many etc.  The fact aht he was forgiven has no bearing on him saying taht he deserves to die by the sword. Actually the memory of him committing these sins must have helped him continue in his spiritual life because he could use them as a means to pray and ask gods forgiveness and humble himself in gods sight. I think that we wouldnt know really what was in his heart, who knows maybe god showed him or revealed to him that his time was come. 

    With love,
    Christ_Rose
  • tonedawgtonedawg
    actually many other martyrs in our church didn't flee either, even some of them went to the governor himself to declare their faith in hope of being killed for christ.  Examples, St. Abanoub, even St. Geroge, who you speak of, went and tore up the proclamation of the persecution of Christians who refused to worship Idols. None ran, but all fled to eagerly proclaim their faith. As Christ promised "those who lose their life for my sake, will find it". 

    in the case of St. Moses, this was a prophecy by one of the elder monks, I believe it was St. Makar, correct me if I'm wrong, who said that one of the monks would die by the sword, which St. Moses thought was himself because he had killed by the sword. 
    hope that kind of helps.

    peace and love

  • His sonHis son
    I am in no place to make judgement on the Great Saint St. Moses the black.

    I just want to point out, that I always understood, as explained to me that being forgiven of a sin does not immune you for the consequences. Hence, when a man commits murder in a country where capital punishment exists, he may repent, but he may still die as  a punishment. I am not suggesting that Saint Moses' death was punishment, but merely that he thought that it was the punishment he deserved.

    If what I am saying is theologically (or otherwise) incorrect, do let em know.

    Saint Paul says:
    "For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain;" Corinthians 15: 9 - 10.

    Saint Paul finds himself in a similar situation.

    All else aside, I believe that saint Moses the black, like christ_rose said, was seeking martyrdom, like any other Coptic Saints (the Synaxarium is full of them).

    May he pray to the Lord on our behalf to forgive us our sins...
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