Hello,
I was just wondering:
1.) Is there a complete translation of the chanted verses of the trisagion in coptic? (Ⲭⲟⲩⲁⲃ Ⲫϯ...)
2.) When the whole trisagion is read, are the verses supposed to have the seasonal adjustments?
2.1.) Side note: Is there seasonal adjustments for the Seven Tunes (and Morning Praises in general) at the part "...[ⲁϥⲓ̀] ⲁϥⲥⲱϯ ⲙ̀ⲙⲟⲛ."
Ϣⲉⲡϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ.
Comments
I don't know if the trisagion has been converted into Coptic or not, but I know that another member has tried to do it a while ago.. You may search for the thread on another part of this forum.
I don't understand what you mean by the whole trisagion.
For seven tunes as well as other hymns I agree that ⲁϥⲓ should always change to reflect the events being celebrated, I am aware that this was not the old practice though..
As a side request I ask you and all other members to refrain from saying ϣⲉⲡϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ. This expression is an imperative verb to instruct someone to "thank". It does not mean anything. Thank who? Thank what?
However, if one would want to say something along the lines of "with thanks", "مع الشكر", then one needs to say ϧⲉⲛ ⲟⲩϣⲉⲡϩⲙⲟⲧ. To say "I thank" only ϣⲉⲡϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ would still be wrong - the verb ought to be "ϯϣⲉⲡϩⲙⲟⲧ" and even in that case it is incomplete and incorrect. Ϣⲉⲡϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ literally means "accept grace" without an article, eg "from", hence it has to be followed by "ⲛ̀ⲧⲟⲧ//".
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡϭⲥ
Are you referring to the creed on the question of "whole trisagion"?
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡϭⲥ
What is the source for the recent change of the Trisagion on Coptic Reader for Theophany (ⲉⲕ ⲡⲁⲣⲑⲉⲛⲟⲩ, ⲟ Ⲓⲟⲣⲇⲁⲛⲟⲩ x2 instead of ⲟ Ⲓⲟⲣⲇⲁⲛⲟⲩ x3), along with the other significant changes to the Coptic (Nativity Paralex, Patriarch Doxology, Alternative Nativity Gospel Response, etc.)
Ϯϣⲉⲡϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ ⲛ̀ⲧⲟⲧⲧⲉⲛ.
Nativity paralex is not new ... Always been there.
Patriarch Doxology, the mistake we all knew that needed to change was in the later paragraph, and that was to replace Aaron with Melchizedek, referring to the priesthood on which our priesthood is now established, being headed by Christ Himself, and considering the context of St Paul's epistle in Hebrews. But, that change in the first paragraph is made up to not make it sound like we supposed "St Peter's Supremacy"
Alternative Nativity Gospel Response... If you are talking about Rabbol-Magd.... That's a bit long. But it's basically an Arabic response that was adapted from an Arabic madeeha... And kinda screwed up in saying "according to John before he saw Him." I'll stop here for now about this.
Other stuff, you kinda need ask about separately.
In general thoo, please do recognize that Coptic Reader only represents the rites practiced by the SUS diocese.... And they are not always accepted by many other churches.
Dear @WedeYonas ⲛ̀ⲧⲟⲧⲉⲛ means us, while the word for plural you is ⲛ̀ⲧⲉⲛ ⲑⲏⲛⲟⲩ..
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡϭⲥ
@ophadece ϯϣⲉⲡϩ̀ⲙⲟⲧ ⲛ̀ⲧⲟⲧⲕ Ⲡⲁⲥⲁϧ ⲛ̀̀̀ⲱⲟⲩⲛ̀ϩⲏⲧ. የቐንየለይ!
@minamakar - absolutely right, until the second quarter of the 5th century the Coptic Church has celebrated Theophany (Nativity and Baptism) as one feast and then they were split up. That was around the 4th decade of the 5th century. However, and this is only my personal deduction which could be wrong, the trisagion hymn was first chanted at the council of Chalcedon, ie 2 decades later roughly. So it may not be the absolute history of using the hymn but perhaps the philosophy to reflect the unity of both events as you have rightly alluded.
BTW I am more in favour of this old practice, which I downloaded from this very website and that matches manuscripts as per the information you taught me today, and also because I see that some things are done just through evolution (sometimes wrong evolved practices) that ought not be so.
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡϭⲥ